Qual a diferença entre o Carioca e o Tupi?

[arqeco]

Amigos,

Qual é a diferença entre o Embraer Carioca e o Embraer Tupi? E quais são os modelos Piper correspondentes a estes dois aviões?

Um abraço,
Márcio

[Tupolev]

Sei que o Carioca tem helice de passo variavel e o Tupi nao, mas acaba ai meu conhecimento dos 2. Nunca voei nenhum deles.
Abraco,
Tupolev

[Ronaldo - JOI]

Pesquisando no site da ANAC vi que a diferença básica entre essas duas aeronaves seria a motorização.

EMB-710: Lycoming O-540 de 235 HP
EMB-712: Lycoming O-360 de 180 HP

Segundo o RAB no Brasil existem 242 Cariocas nas versões EMB-710, EMB-710C e EMB-710D e 141 exemplares do EMB-712 Tupi. Os correspondentes norte-americanos seriam o Piper Archer (Tupi) e Piper Dakota (Carioca).

[Constellation]

Caro arqeco,

Embora visualmente os dois aviões ejam muito parecidos, a motorização e o comportamento de ambos em vôo é totalmente diferente:

O Tupi tem um motor Lycoming O-360, de 4 cilindros e 180 HP, e hélice de passo fixo; O Carioca tem um motor Lycoming IO-540, de 6 cilindros e 235 HP, com hélice de velocidade constante.

Ambos são aeronaves bastante dóceis de comando (uma característica dos aviões Piper), mas o desempenho do Carioca é muito superior, em decolagem, subida e pousos curtos. Em contrapartida, o Tupi é muito mais econômico, tem ótimo planeio, devido às asas alongadas.

Um abraço.

[Ronaldo - JOI]

Respondido no mesmo tempo!

[TO/GA]

SNME o Tupi tem 4 lugares e o Carioca 6 e ambos tem o trem fixo.

[Constellation]

SNME o Tupi tem 4 lugares e o Carioca 6 e ambos tem o trem fixo.

Caro TO/GA,

Tanto o Tupi quanto o Carioca têm 4 lugares e trem fixo. As aeronaves Piper de 6/7 lugares são os EMB-720 Minuano, de trem fixo e EMB-721 Sertanejo de trem retrátil, equivalentes aos americanos Cherokee Six e Saratoga. Os dois modelos são praticamente idênticos, com exceção do trem de pouso, e ambos são equipados com o motor Lycoming IO-540, de 300 HP.

um abraço.

[TO/GA]

SNME o Tupi tem 4 lugares e o Carioca 6 e ambos tem o trem fixo.

Caro TO/GA,

Tanto o Tupi quanto o Carioca têm 4 lugares e trem fixo. As aeronaves Piper de 6/7 lugares são os EMB-720 Minuano, de trem fixo e EMB-721 Sertanejo de trem retrátil, equivalentes aos americanos Cherokee Six e Saratoga. Os dois modelos são praticamente idênticos, com exceção do trem de pouso, e ambos são equipados com o motor Lycoming IO-540, de 300 HP.

um abraço.

Obrigado pela retificação.
Estava confundindo Carioca e Minuano.
Infelizmente o Carioca não conheço apesar de sê-lo . Porém o Tupi ja sofreu nas minhas mãos. Um deles é o Romeo-Lima-Oscar do ACSP. Quantas boas lembranças.

[arqeco]

Amigos,

Muito obrigado pelas informações. Se não for abusar, saberiam me dizer o consumo dessas aeronaves?

Abaixo segue uma mensagem que peguei não sei aonde na Internet de um proprietário de Piper Cherokee 235 (que seria então o nosso Carioca).

Um abraço,
Márcio

Flying the Piper PA28-235

De: Larry Dighera - ver perfil
Data: Qui 3 jun 1999 00:00
E-mail: LDigh...@worldnet.att.net (Larry Dighera)
Grupos: rec.aviation.piloting


Flying the PA28-235
-------------------------------

The Piper PA28-235 is a terrific aircraft which will carry its own
empty weight of 1400 lbs in useful load; that's more than a C-206 will
carry!

With 83.5 gallons useable and 150 mph (mine is a 1964) cruise speed,
you'll be able to transport 1,400 lbs of fuel, baggage, and protoplasm
for ~6 hours and 900 miles (no reserve). I know of no other aircraft
that will provide this performance at less than 15 gph. Because of
the simplicity of fixed-gear, a proven airframe, and a 2,000 hour TBO
Lycoming engine, maintenance and insurance are inexpensive. In my
opinion the Cherokee 235 is the best performing fixed-gear single in
it's class.

Operating the Cherokee 235
--------------------------------------------

The preflight inspection is simple and intuitive, but don't forget to
drain the fuel sump with the valve located behind the right front
seat. Oil capacity is 12 quarts of W100 Aeroshell with 8 quarts
minimum.

Starting: Allow the engine to turn over about one full revolution then
turn on the _Left_magneto_only_. Pump the throttle a few strokes, and
it'll catch immediately. Switch to Both magnetos as soon as it begins
running smoothly.

Take off: Above 5,000 feet elevation, lean the mixture for best
power. Takeoff should be positive. Use slight foreword stick
pressure while accelerating, to save tire rubber and keep it tracking
straight. At 65-70 mph IAS ease back and allow it to accelerate in
ground-effect, Climb at 100 mph IAS. Use two notches of flaps (25
degrees) and slower speed for short/soft/high-elevation fields.

Climb: Trim for 115 mph IAS for good cooling/visability and expect a
~900 fpm RAC at sea-level. Electric fuel pump(s) off at 1,500 feet
AGL Best Rate of climb (Vy) is 100 mph; Best Angle (Vx) is 90 mph.
Adjust all speeds downward for less than gross weight. Lean for best
power (~1,500 F, or 100 F below peak EGT) while climbing above 5,000
feet. Never climb with carburetor heat on; it can cause catastrophic
engine failure due to detonation.

Cruise: Check the POH for power settings of 75% or less. Generally,
under 24 inches MP and 2250 RPM help to conserve fuel. Of course,
lean it when at altitude, and slow down the prop to around 2,100 RPM
above 10,000 feet. Burn the main tanks dry before using the fuel in
the tip tanks (it's in the POH; don't ask me why). Do not cruise with
Carb-heat on.

Descent: Reduce MP in stages to avoid shock-cooling that mighty 540
cubic inch six.. At sea-level, 17 inches MP with two passengers
aboard yields ~500 FPM descent at 115 mph for instrument approaches.

Landing: Electric fuel pump on. Fullest tank selected. Prop and
mixture to the firewall. Carburetor heat is not used unless there is
a likelihood of carburetor ice as would exist when visible moisture is
evident in the air-mass or with a small temperature/due-point spread.
When using Carb-heat apply it _slowly_ and only for a few seconds; do
not approach with Carb-heat on. This could cause detonation and poor
performance in a go-around.

The wing loading is a bit higher than that to which you may be
accustomed, which contributes to a good ride in turbulence. But if
there's any wind-shear, and there usually is, coupled with the wing
loading it can produce alarming sink rates on short final. Expect
this to occur.

Use either a power approach at 85-90 mph (recommended), or a
power-off steep approach with flaps and/or a slip. If you choose the
latter, be prepared for the airspeed to diminish _rapidly_ on
round-out. In any event, be prepared for the "BOTOM TO DROP OUT" at
about 50 feet AGL, and smoothly _add_power_to_arrest_the_decent. At
slow speed, yaw stability is a little wallowy, but the power approach
diminishes this nuisance.

Touch down below ~70 mph depending on flap setting, with the nose well
above the horizon. Vso is 60 mph; Vs is 70 mph. At touch down,
throttle to idle. Retract the flaps, and use full back stick to keep
the weight on the main gear (not the nose wheel) while braking.
Normal slip-into-the-wind cross-wind landing technique works fine, and
of course, less flap is desirable in a cross-wind.

Taxi: If you're running 100 LL fuel, lean to prevent spark plug
fouling. This is especially important at high elevation airports
where you want all 12 plugs firing when it comes time to depart.

The check-list attached to this post still needs work, but you'll find
it useful. It's in WordPerfect format.

You can find the Type Certificate here:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/tcds/tc/tcds.htm . It will give some
information if you don't have access to a POH yet.

I've had a 1/3rd interest in a PA28-235 since March of '98 and
accumulated about 150 hours in type. My impression is that the
performance of the Cherokee 235 is remarkably superior to most (if not
all) 4 place, fixed gear single engine aircraft, and the lack of
complexity of fuel calculations, weight & balance, and operating
technique provide peace of mind, and time to enjoy the other
challenges and pleasures of operating a personal aircraft. To date,
I've never come close to loading it to gross weight, nor landing with
less than 2 hours fuel remaining in the tanks.

Have fun Mark. You're going to love it! The Cherokee 235 is a
terrific performer for a fixed-singel, and a reasonable choice for
confident operation in the Rocky Mountains.

Larry Dighera
LDigh...@worldnet.att.net

DISCLAIMER: The operating techniques, speeds, rec commendations, and
opinions expressed above are consistent with the operation of the
author's specific aircraft. Other Piper PA28-235 aircraft may differ
in performance, suitable operating techniques, or other parameters due
to wear, modification, or factory design changes. Further, the
operation at each specific airport is unique. The author assumes no
responsibility for the use of the information provided above, and
further cautions the Pilot In Command that it is solely the
responsibility of the Pilot In Command of any aircraft to operate that
aircraft safely, in accordance with the Pilot's Operating Handbook
issued for the specific aircraft he is flying, and consistent with the
Federal Aviation Regulations, and prevailing meteor logical and
surface conditions.

PS:
My current financial situation forces me to offer my 1/3rd interest in
our SNA California based Cherokee 235 for purchase.

[Luciano ABC]

O "ROLO" como era conhecido na minha época de ACSP, também sofreu um pouco na minha mão...

Luciano

SNME o Tupi tem 4 lugares e o Carioca 6 e ambos tem o trem fixo.

Caro TO/GA,

Tanto o Tupi quanto o Carioca têm 4 lugares e trem fixo. As aeronaves Piper de 6/7 lugares são os EMB-720 Minuano, de trem fixo e EMB-721 Sertanejo de trem retrátil, equivalentes aos americanos Cherokee Six e Saratoga. Os dois modelos são praticamente idênticos, com exceção do trem de pouso, e ambos são equipados com o motor Lycoming IO-540, de 300 HP.

um abraço.

Obrigado pela retificação.
Estava confundindo Carioca e Minuano.
Infelizmente o Carioca não conheço apesar de sê-lo . Porém o Tupi ja sofreu nas minhas mãos. Um deles é o Romeo-Lima-Oscar do ACSP. Quantas boas lembranças.